Athens, 7 October 2021 (MIA) – President Stevo Pendarovski shares in an interview with MIA his impressions and messages from the meetings with counterpart Sakellaropoulou and PM Mitsotakis, the Prespa Agreement and the possible resistance from Greece, opportunities for cooperation, energy and the possible return visit of the Greek President to Skopje. At the end of the first official visit by a country’s President to Greece, Pendarovski says bilateral relations are taking a normal course, although this is only the beginning of a long-term process, expecting the dynamics to develop while adding that the tempo is promising. Mr. President, the EU-Western Balkans Summit is taking place in parallel with your visit to Greece. How important are these initiatives to overcome the Bulgarian blockade and open the path to the first intergovernmental conference? In this case there is no specific initiative, this is a regular meeting of the Western Balkans with EU members, a practice that has been existent for years. However, there are a few initiatives within the Summit, in a way, by members-friends of the Western Balkans, not only of North Macedonia, who are trying to somehow create an environment for a breakthrough in the well-known dispute due to which Bulgaria has been blocking us over the start of the accession negotiations. Nevertheless, it is good that the European Union is attempting to put the focus back on the Western Balkans, keeping the focus of the focus on our issue. Because as you know, we met the criteria a long time ago and the Bulgarian blockade came out of nowhere, after Sofia gave the green light at the EU Council last March and afterwards set these additional conditions. Let’s go back to your visit here in Greece, a visit full of symbolism I would say. The first president of North Macedonia coming to Athens, meeting with the first female President of Greece. What messages did you get from but also extended to the Greek top officials? Could we say that bilateral relations are gradually getting back to normal, entering a regular rhythm as befitting two neighboring countries? I told both interlocutors – the President and the Prime Minister – that I would like to see these visits become a routine. Bilateral relations will be fully normalized when they do become a routine, but we have still not come to this. Prime Minister Mitsotakis said at one point ‘wounds are still fresh’ in certain segments of the political specter of the Hellenic Republic. This still exists in our country, resistance is there, there are still people who don’t believe in the Prespa Agreement despite its obvious benefits and positive effects for the country’s development. You are aware that the resistance was even bigger in Greece, especially in those regions in the proximity of the border. Therefore, it will take time and we will have to educate the new generations, who should be raised in the spirit of European solidarity and tolerance. Each country has its own specifics that must be respected. This respect doesn’t mean that I disrespect your specifics. Europe was created by different nations, different religions, different cultures, and this is the beauty of the European project. You mentioned resistance. New Democracy showed that resistance when in opposition. We all know the position of incumbent PM Mitsotakis. Was that resistance and non-acceptance of the Prespa Agreement palpable during the discussions? Of course, they are saying the international agreement would be respected and implemented, since it has been signed and ratified. I would not want to put the PM into trouble by saying if resistance was there or not, but his practical conduct and of his government over the past year-and-a-half make it clear there is no visible political resistance. In fact, this visit would not be possible if such resistance existed. Prime Minister Zaev has visited Greece on several occasions and has established excellent and personal communication with his counterpart. Therefore, the resistance is not there, but it is a fact that certain resistance is present in sections of the ruling party if you are hinting at the memoranda waiting to be ratified in the Greek Parliament. Mr.Mitsotakis did not hide this fact. He said, ‘I would not like to poke the bear in such political constellations, the wounds that are still fresh, and all we want is to cooperate where we can without going into a parliamentary debate that would include only politics and nothing else. This will not be of use for both countries and both nations.’ Nevertheless, the visit has demonstrated that bilateral relations are taking a normal course. Of course, although this is only the beginning of a long-term process while expecting the dynamics of political relations at the highest level to develop, but the tempo is promising. This start at the highest political level, considering it is an official state visit not some attendance at an economic forum or a roundtable, is promising. What I heard at the dinner with the Greek President, as well as at the official talks during the day is that she also has no prejudice regarding the Prespa Agreement. She is a top-class jurist and a long-time judge, and she knows very well that the seriousness of a country is also valued by the degree to which it respects its obligations undertaken from predecessors. At the formal dinner in the Presidential Palace you invited Madam Sakellaropoulou to visit North Macedonia and witness our country’s beauties. Could we expect the Greek President for a return in Skopje visit soon? I reaffirmed my invitation during an informal conversation at the end of the dinner, not only in my speech. Of course, the presidential offices should make the arrangements in the coming period, but there is will in principle on her part to visit our country. She was born not far from the Macedonian-Greek border, so it will be nice for her to see not only the natural beauties but also, politics-wise, to further break the ice, so that we show it was really embarrassing for two countries, neighbors for 30 years and for centuries to come, to have no communication, no bilateral documents, seeing each other practically through the barrel of the gun. Irrespective of the European and Euro-Atlantic integration process, time was lost and many generations lost on both sides of the border, the two nations but mostly for the young people. We will make an effort and I believe we have the understanding and promise from the other side to compensate for that enormous time gap, which was in the meantime, unfortunately, filled with blockades, sanctions, poor political rhetoric, failure to understand the policies of the other. In this sense, the Prespa Agreement is truly a revolutionary act. Where do things stand with the Agreement? It was one of the main topics of discussion. Did your Greek interlocutors ask for anything, something that North Macedonia has to implement, areas that lack progress or vice versa? You mentioned the memoranda, but Greece does not have any major obligations anyway… I told both the President and the PM that the biggest and hardest compromise on our part is a done deal. The name, ‘erga omnes’ for domestic and international use has been practically implemented. Prior to coming here, I addressed our Ministry of Foreign Affairs in order to get information on the status of our duties arising from the Agreement. Here I am referring to the complete implementation of the Prespa Agreement, because we don’t intend to hold back on anything, bluff or show duplicity i.e. say one thing and do something else. The report is about 20 pages long, rather detailed, demonstrating that we have been consistently implementing all obligations. Here I am referring to the Vergina symbols, the former name on monuments, primary schools, municipalities. There was no objection or request from my interlocutors in this regard. Our request regarding their obligations relates to traffic signs and boards that have not been replaced, except for the border. This is partly due to what I was saying before, the resistance against Prespa here in Greece, which was mostly seen in the country’s northern parts and this is the case even today. This is seen in politics, church, even by NGOs, let alone political parties. In fact, every Greek government, including this one, always has a thin majority in parliament and it is important for every PM to ‘keep an eye’ on the lawmakers coming from the Thessaloniki area. Still, these are isolated incidents that don’t prevent the two countries from cooperating in the fields of economy, energy and other areas… We spent most of the time talking about the Alexandroupolis gas terminal near the Greek-Turkish border. We would like to have certain ownership percentage in this terminal, including the construction of a new gas pipeline from Thessaloniki to Skopje, resulting in more stability in the energy field, along with the energy diversification, so that we don’t depend on a single supplier or suppliers from one country. This international consortium includes not only Greek companies and Greek businessmen, but also several U.S. companies that give certain geo-political dimension of the projects. Aside from energy, are there other areas that are maybe a bit neglected despite the capacity of both countries to enhance cooperation? We discussed this topic again, because you know that Greek companies bought several strategic facilities 15-20 years ago, followed by a break because the dispute went beyond the name, so Greek businessmen reluctantly came to invest in our country. I believe that the Greek business community is seeing a reawakening and they have interlocutors in our chambers of commerce. There is one aspect not related only to the economy, energy, money etc. I believe it was quite neglected and I was pleased to hear, prior to coming here, that the youth cooperation offices are already in negotiations to launch specific field activities in the post-covid era. I think that young generations, who easily overcome prejudices, should start communicating among each other as soon as possible. Germany and France set up such offices after World War II, amid much more difficult circumstances than the ones we have with Greece, and this contributed a lot in bringing young generations closer and shattering stereotypes, showing that people on both sides face the same concerns, irrelevant of local specifics, nation, religion. We are all humans, first and foremost. It seems there is unity in Greece’s foreign policy, regardless of the party in power or the head of state. Could we say the same about North Macedonia? My answer will not come as a surprise. Unfortunately not. Not only regarding Prespa, but also the Bulgarian issue, where we have a Parliament declaration that has been adopted after much tug of war. However, if you go point by point, segment by segment, the authorities and the opposition vastly differ on this entire Macedonian-Bulgarian range of issues and problems. I feel especially bad that the opposition did not find the strength, similarly to the Greek former opposition and currently in power, to say only a single sentence: we would not have concluded such an agreement if we had been in power. To say that the agreement is not good because of such and such reasons, to say that we would respect the agreement if we take power tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, no matter how bad it is, like any serious country would do. These were the exact words of the Greek PM. He said, ‘You are aware of my position about Prespa, you know our position as a party. It has not changed, but we are a serious country, we have almost 200 years of statehood and cannot allow as a party to think differently than our biggest political opponents when it comes to strategic issues.’ https://youtu.be/QXf1KLw_vHA Sanja Ristovska Camera: Kristijan Georgievski Translated by: Ivan Kolekjevski