Skopje, 22 November 2023 (MIA) – Corruption is extremely dangerous, it undermines democratic institutions, it undermines the trust in the state, and it also makes it harder to do business. So, it’s extremely important to fight corruption at all levels, at all time, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg told MIA in a video interview.

On whether his address to Parliament was an attempt to encourage lawmakers to adopt the constitutional amendments as a condition for the continuation of the country’s path to the EU, Stoltenberg did not comment directly, but noted that it would be good for the entire region to have North Macedonia make progress on the path to EU membership.

Below is the full interview with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, who visited North Macedonia for the first time since the country became a NATO member as part of his Balkan tour. In it, he talks about regional security challenges, the situation in Ukraine and support from the Alliance, as well as the biggest test ahead of the largest military and political alliance.

Mr. Stoltenberg, what is your impression of the country after the accession to the Alliance?

North Macedonia is a highly valued NATO ally. North Macedonia contributes to our shared security, and NATO membership is good for North Macedonia, and it is also good for NATO. I am impressed by the progress I have seen, I have also seen that NATO membership has enabled more investments, more foreign investments, and more jobs and more growth. Because when you have security guaranteed by NATO then, of course, it is easier for private investors to invest and to help promote economic growth in your country. So, I am glad to see a very committed NATO ally in North Macedonia.

Was your address to Parliament yesterday an attempt to encourage lawmakers to adopt the constitutional amendments?

It is not for me to go into those specific issues, because they are also related to your process towards EU membership. But my message is that NATO membership has very often paved the way for EU membership, and it would be good for the whole region also to have North Macedonia making progress on the path to EU membership. Of course, that will require some decisions by North Macedonia, but it is not for me to go into the specific proposals on the paper.

Can you comment about the situation with corruption in the country and in the region? Can we say it contributes to the destabilization of the region?

Corruption is a disease, corruption is extremely dangerous, corruption is undermining democratic institutions, corruption is undermining the trust in the state, and it also making it harder to do business. So, it’s extremely important to fight corruption at all levels, at all time, and I welcome the commitment of the Prime Minister, we had a meeting, and he reiterated his strong commitment to fight corruption, this is extremely important. It makes any country which suffers from corruption poorer, more vulnerable, because you have weakened state institutions, so corruption is extremely important to fight.

You stated no military threat would come from Russia against any NATO ally from the region, while adding that Moscow will be closely followed. Can we expect further enhancement of NATO presence in the region, and is there a risk of new tensions in Kosovo?

Well, my message is that we don’t see any imminent military threat against any NATO ally in this region or any other NATO ally for that sake. But what we see is instability in this region, particularly increased violence or serious violent incidents in Kosovo. Instability has increased also in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and the dialogue between Belgrade and Prishtina risks a total stall. Therefore, we need to focus on how can we help to stabilize our neighborhood. Because, when neighbors of NATO are more stable, we as NATO allies, North Macedonia and the rest of the Alliance, we are more secure. We have already increased our presence in Kosovo, with a thousand troops. Of course, we will always assess what is necessary, but our aim is, of course, not to stay with troops in Kosovo forever, our aim is to help to facilitate, support a normalization that enables to reduce our presence. But, obviously now [there] is actually less stability, or instability, and therefore we have increased our presence. But then, when it comes to protecting NATO allies, most NATO allies don’t have large numbers of NATO troops deployed, but NATO has the ability to quickly reinforce, to deploy troops and forces if needed, and of course, if we see any direct threat against a NATO ally we are ready to deploy forces, but we don’t see that kind of threat against North Macedonia or any other NATO ally.

It seems that the Israel-Hamas war has diverted the attention of the global public from the war in Ukraine. Is there a threat of fatigue among NATO members regarding the support to Kiev or a possible disruption of the Alliance’s unity around this issue?

What you have seen recently is that allies continue to provide significant military support to Ukraine. Just over the last few days, the United States made a big new announcement of additional support, more ammunition, more weapon systems. Germany made a big announcement just a couple of days ago, and other allies have also made announcements. I think, actions speak louder than words, and the actions of NATO allies, actually continuing to provide concrete military support to Ukraine is the best message to President Putin that he will not win on the battlefield. He has to accept that Ukraine will prevail as a sovereign, independent nation, and if he wanted to negotiate a peaceful settlement to this conflict, the war against Ukraine, the best way of achieving that is to convince President Putin will not win on the battlefield, because then he has to sit down and agree an agreement that ensures that Ukraine prevails as a sovereign independent nation in Europe.

NATO will mark its 75th anniversary next year, what will be the biggest test for the future of the Alliance?

The biggest test for NATO is always our unity, and for all those 75 years we have been united around our core task, to protect and defend each other, one for all and all for one, and we have ensured this unity despite differences. We are 31 different allies, almost 32 with Sweden, from both sides of the Atlantic, and of course there are differences, we don’t agree on all issues, but we agree on the core issue, to protect each other. And by doing that we preserve peace, because the purpose of NATO is not to provoke a conflict, it’s to prevent a conflict by sending a clear and strong message to any potential adversary that we are there to protect each other. By doing that, we are pursuing peace and preventing war. This is also the case in the Western Balkans, the Western Balkans is core business for NATO, we have history here, we have presence here, we have responsibility to work with allies and partners in the region to ensure peace and stability, and that’s exactly what we do. That’s also the main message during my tour in the region, and my main message here in Skopje. And I have a close relationship with this region partly because I had the privilege of being the Secretary General of NATO when North Macedonia became a member, and it was courage and political vision, all the political leadership in North Macedonia that made that possible, the Prespa Agreement was really statesmanship, it was leadership that enabled you to become a member of NATO, which is good for North Macedonia, your security, and also for your economy. But, I also have a very close relationship to this region, because when I was a child, my father worked at the Norwegian Embassy to Yugoslavia, and we traveled a lot in this region, and I have fond memories from my visits to Skopje in the 1960s and 1970s, and it’s great to be back.

You are heading NATO amid the most challenging period of the Alliance. But you said that you would not run for a third term as a Secretary General. What are the most important lessons you would share with your successor?

The most important lesson and the most important message is that NATO has to be united and to keep North America and Europe together, I don’t believe in North America or America alone, I don’t believe in Europe alone. I believe in North America and Europe together in NATO, because then we are safe, then we are able to protect each other. I don’t know what the next crisis will be, but I do know that whatever happens, we are safer when we are together. So, unity, is the first and most important lesson. The second lesson is that we need to change – when the world changes, NATO has to change. That’s exactly what has happened since 2014, when Russia illegally annexed Crimea, and went in eastern Donbas. Since then, NATO has implemented the biggest adaptation, the change of our alliance in a generation, so change and unity are the two main tasks for any NATO leader.

Violeta Gerov

Video: Srgjan Krstikj

Photo: Asllan Vishko