Skopje, 14 June 2026 (MIA) 

Pandorka ARSOVSKA-GACOVA

We mustn’t forget the citizens. We are temporary, we’re not perfect. Politics is in major crisis now because it mainly deals with who, how and when they will win. The citizens are the source of our legitimacy and they bear sovereignty, President Gordana Siljanovska – Davkova tells MIA in an interview.

When asked how we should prevent the citizens from not losing trust in the European perspective, she says they should be encouraged that European principles and values are also Macedonian principles. 

When talking about her visits and meetings, Siljanovska – Davkova notes that it’s time for evidence-based policy.

“If you point out politely, culturally, with arguments, that you have objections to some solutions, that those solutions do not correspond to the philosophy of the European Union, that those solutions are not acceptable to the majority of citizens, then I think they will think, if not themselves, then their interlocutors. And that is why I often say that it is time for evidence-based policy,” she says. 

She stresses that being a small country, it shouldn’t be submissive abroad. “You have to present the national interests and defend them. You will be treated the same if you deserve the treatment,” she adds. 

Talking about the judiciary, the President insists that it should undergo serious reforms. 

Siljanovska-Davkova says she is a fighter when asked where she gets energy for her job. “It’s all in the mind,” she notes. 

Ms President, you called the road to the EU a marathon with obstacles. After two decades being a candidate to join, how are we going to prevent the public from losing trust in the European perspective?

First of all, we mustn’t forget the public. We are temporary, we’re not perfect. Today, politics is in a crisis because it mainly deals with who, when and how they will win, but the citizens is our source of our legitimacy and they are the bearers of sovereignty. It’s encouraging, even the document called non-paper, which I believe it will not stay that way, because it has not only principles, but also concrete activities. So, students, all citizens, businesspeople will be able to be part of the competition in the European single market and in the creation of a joint policy even though we are the only country with 100-percent aligned foreign and security policy, which is vital in the times we live in.

We should encourage the citizens that the European principles and values, the defined ones that aren’t respected in constitutive acts, are also Macedonian principles and values and that we should also function here in the same way.

Over time, we’ve become tough, we’ve adapted knowing how to fight, how to survive. We need more than encouragement because for 20 years through the carrot and stick game... I once said the carrots have been eaten, the sticks have been broken, there is no longer any logic in practicing therapeutic democracy, I really still think that a solution can be found.

Ms President, recently you had several official visits. This month alone, you visited Slovenia and Slovakia before visiting Croatia. In addition to EU and NATO countries, you are in contact with counterparts from other important countries. What’s next on your agenda? 

Soon, I will visit Ankara for the NATO summit. We usually make arrangements with the prime minister together with the foreign minister. What else do I have? There will be in July, I’d say, an interesting visit for our region - the President of India will visit us. I sometimes say that personal contacts are also important in politics. Fortunately, today on the global political scene there are several presidents, prime ministers, ministers with whom I have had close relations of a different, scientific kind, being members of the World Association for Constitutional Law, the Venice Commission, the Council of Europe, so I think we must open up to other parts of the world.

[Mark] Rutte, the NATO chief, and the Council of Europe Secretary General, [Alain Berset] paid a visit to the country. Do you feel that understanding for the Macedonian position is rising compared to few years ago?

It is visible absolutely. Just start from the fact that a legal opinion was requested on the nature of the protocols, that it is happening... I cannot talk about the meetings of my predecessors, however, when they hear arguments, which are not only political, but are arguments of an essential nature for the European Union, to listen to you, to share an opinion, to tell you that there were dilemmas, that sometimes they were pointed out - I am talking about think tanks, also to those dilemmas, but we should know that when an important act is found on the table of the European Union, what they see, what they analyze, is what they hear. If you say there that the negotiating framework is ok, that it is aligned that it was done bona fide, they will believe you. If you point out decently, culturally, with arguments that you have remarks on some solutions, that those solutions do not correspond to the philosophy of the European Union, that those solutions are not acceptable to most citizens, that you cannot just impose them because you are talking about a democratic, political European system, a democratic political system, a Macedonian political system, then I think they will consider it, if not themselves, then their interlocutors.

I have had multiple panels during this period: from a panel in Azerbaijan on democracy, on European integration, to a panel in Columbia, to a panel in France with some of the advisors, a senior diplomat, of Mr Macron. They do not treat me then only politically, but they listen to you, take note of it, convey it. And that is why I often say that it is time for evidence-based politics. We must not behave submissively abroad - a small state, a small president, you must obey. You must present national interests, positions and defend them. That will be the attitude towards you, of course, if there is one, if you deserve that attitude and if you are equal with them in the conversation.

What message was conveyed to you by the European partners regarding reforms? 

I can tell from the meetings that they say that we are in shape, that we are working, but the impression here is not important. I said: evidence-based policy. The facts in the relationship are much more important. How much money have you received from the Growth Plan, where are you in the gradation - economic, political... Where are you in dealing with energy problems?

These are things that say more than words. There are things that do not have to be said, they can be seen from the numbers. Those are the reforms. And that is why I have understanding... if the non-paper becomes a good paper, a good document with accurate agendas, time agendas, profiles of the path of each country and so on.

As we saw after SEPA and the results of SEPA, we saw it from TAIEX and the results of that. There are many such opportunities and that is, in fact, the essence of Europeanization.

You announced Macedonia will host the Brdo-Brijuni meeting. Why regional leaders will gather in Macedonia instead of in Brujuni, which should have hosted the summit in the first place? Will Macedonia save this process? 

I don't know if I should use the verb "save", but it is a sign of trust. Yes, we witnessed some problems in communication in the region and the organization of the Brdo - Brijuni Process was called into question, otherwise initiated by Slovenia and Croatia. I take this opportunity to say that them initiating this process is an extraordinary step because they joined the European Union. That was an excellent, excellent step, in my opinion.

The Brdo – Brijuni Process must not stop. Of course, when colleagues from Slovenia and Croatia think that I could be the one to bring everyone together, I immediately accepted, I don't think that is a mistake. I will try and we are already trying to coordinate everyone and meet either in Skopje or in Ohrid. It may not be Brdo or Brioni, but it will be a good Balkan step. Yes, we do not have any problem, especially not territorial or any other problem, with our neighbors, to be honest. We act within the framework of the Brdo - Brijuni Process as a responsible regional player and all my colleagues respect that.

At home, it seems, the judiciary and the devastating 2-percent public trust in it is a key issue. We’re solving problems with new laws and all those passed so far carry the EU flag, yet the two-percent issue remains. The Academy for Judges and Prosecutors didn’t’ help. Double standards happen almost on daily basis. According to you, where does a solution lies helping the judiciary restore public trust? 

In serious, comprehensive reforms. The European Union reports note the main problems. It is not enough to just align the legislation - that process has begun, but it is important - because, if you foresee stricter criteria for the selection of judges and public prosecutors, it will certainly be reflected in... or it has something to do with their integrity and dignity in their actions. In fact, we’ve witnessed who an anti-system has become a system. That takes time, but I am also very strict here, I still have criticism. I think that if we do not decide when candidates are applying, when candidates are selected in the judiciary, in the Public Prosecutor's Office, in the Constitutional Court, in the Administrative Court, in the management boards and so on, to break with partisanship and politicization, then we will go around in circles.

We’ve all been in the right place with the wrong people that don’t deserve the position, who won’t be abide by the laws, the Constitution, rule of law, ethics, but will remain loyal to those who nominated them to the post.

The public perception is such, which means we have to take steps to change it. How? With different results, adopting a philosophy of sanctioning, a philosophy of accountability even for those at the top. The origin of their assets has to be re-examined.

We have to do it once and for all and it’s possible. When anyone takes office, begins a certain job, it is easy to check what they entered with, how they left and whether it is possible. Because, I am not surprised by the huge money of some figures in world politics, tied to artificial intelligence and so on, but when you see profiles who absolutely could not earn it from their work, to acquire wealth, it certainly needs to be examined. And then they hold on tightly to wealth because their philosophy is that money can buy everything and somehow, we get the impression that justice does not reach everyone. That must be settled.

Ms President, you deliver lectures at universities during almost all of your official or working visits. Can the academic environment contribute to the country’s international positioning and what are foreign students asking you about Macedonia?

Students are rebellious everywhere, youth is rebellious, they ask questions and no function or status can replace that pleasure of teaching someone and being respected by them.

That environment is far different from the political one. There is no obedience. That is why I wonder how historians can discuss history under the guise of a ministry of foreign affairs, that is, under the guise of politics. Science under the guise of politics cannot succeed, cannot survive, and when I want to defend myself, to say something that is in science, I say: "However, the professor in me is still present, and this is some temporary... some temporary status". It will end, but this other thing will not remain. What am I talking about? Yes, about the most current problems, I even think that it has an influence on the formation of the attitudes of some politicians because sometimes they also attend. For example, the title of my lecture at Columbia University was "The Macedonian Marathon to Brussels”.

You extended you lecture there, there were too many students, too many questions. You let it continue although you were scheduled to go to dinner with President Trump.

Yes, but you also saw the professor of political science, who is an expert on European integration and, of course, he also asked irritating questions. But the challenge is different. When you see your colleague from Columbia University in the General Assembly encouraging you, and then he will come to you, when you see a professor from Columbia coming this summer - he was in Ohrid for 10 days to encourage us, to ask me how he can help me. When you go to Slovenia and you see all the members of the commission, who are much older than me, how they came to honor you... It is wonderful. But that is not a coincidence. Several of them were also politically engaged. When you go to Croatia and when you give a lecture, which also refers to the veto, to the obstacles in our path, that is also a beautiful opportunity. The professors are there, but also some of them were or are now in politics and so on. And people of knowledge can assess... They can assess and - most importantly - appreciate knowledge, yes, they appreciate knowledge.

Recently, a group of people who were former ministers, former presidents, well-known experts, came to the Office, together with my colleague Ivanov, because they are in that forum for dialogue between civilizations, for cultural diplomacy. Among them were names that are top-notch. When you go to the General Assembly and then to the Harvard Club, you will see former presidents, prime ministers and representatives of the European Union, then they will express their support to you, that is something very important. The same applies when you go to the Yale Club or when you go to Paris.

What brings you more pleasure – addressing students or making a speech at a political summit? You also haven’t give up on having daily contacts with the citizens. Just before this interview, you met with citizens in the People’s Office, which is close to our studio.

No office can replace the pleasure of the amphitheater. The air is different. That's something that's important. You become young, you become rebellious. I tell students: "You sometimes for no reason, I for a reason." If it weren't for this post, I wouldn't have been able to get to know my people up close. When you're a professor - yes, the students are the ones who come from different backgrounds with different statuses. But in my case, when you go on a campaign, you see it up close, with all the problems, with all the virtues. And that's very nice, encouraging. When you see that they ask you questions, you answer, they encourage you - not that I don't make mistakes, that's impossible, it's impossible, every person makes mistakes.

However, I think it's important to convince people, both students and people, that you're there for them, and not because of your status or because of your journey or, let's say, for some privileges, which really annoys me, to be honest.

Halfway through your term, what surprised you the most when you became president?

You can't do what you wrote in the program and think that you will implement it point by point... That was your plan and concept. In order for it to come to fruition, it is not enough to have only the people around you - let's not forget, you inherited most of them, they are employees. Who am I now to say: "You will not be here, you will go, I will bring my people" and so on? I am trying to do it to a minimum because it is about costs.

And, when they ask me about advisors - yes, yes, I don't have many advisors. I have one for European integration, I have one for laws, because that is necessary for me so that you can sign a decree. You need to know everything about the subject, you need a top lawyer so that there is nothing unconstitutional, so that there are no problems. European integration - yes, and I don't care at all whether someone was during the time of some other government or not, I see what knowledge is, and to force that... you need it. But mainly the problems dictate how you will behave.

People expect you to meet them. People expect, if they celebrate 80 years at a university or at a theater, that you be there. And I am a person who wants it my way. I want what I say to have my color, that I write it, and that is simply impossible always. That requires a lot of work.

When you walk down the street here, and they wave at you from a car, they will honk at you, they will stop you and you will stop with them, you will talk. It is something... I do not know how to describe it. Well, now, political engagement sometimes dictates your time to such an extent that your family can be left on the sidelines, unfortunately. And you still have a terrible pang of conscience.

It’s the same in journalism, too…

I know. And sometimes I wonder, perhaps I should have stayed with Rosa, my granddaughter, to help raise her. But once you start something… I’m a fighter you know. 

Some say: “Where do you get your energy from?” It’s all in the mind. If you are convinced that you can do something good and that it is worth doing, you cannot evaluate it yourself, others will evaluate it. But, yes, I know that I may not have met everyone's expectations. But I cannot sometimes get out of my jurisdiction because I believe in the need for checks and balances, for the separation of powers.

It’s tough job, but we mustn’t be frustrated because we come from a small country.

I oftentimes say that the EU should reconsider the methodology of negotiations. It cannot be reduced to “shut up and listen”. As in older brother and a younger one, or a rich man and poor man. The candidate countries also have something to say. 

 What kind of negotiations are these when you tell me: "Here is the framework, implement it, change the Constitution because we are inside, we are an exclusive society, and you are waiting"? No. I mention this many times, a very famous American professor, but also one of the best experts on European integration, Joseph Weiler, calls it "Euromandarinism". The EU also needs deep reforms like the United Nations. Since war broke you and you were founded as a peace project...

You’d mentioned it in the UN speech, that the United Nations needs to undergo reforms…

The first reform being – female secretary general. Tons of materials in 80 years, gender issues, general balance. Only words. How there had been no female head of the United Nations. Reforms of the General Assembly, reforms of the Security Council. Where’s the Security Council. There’s a war in the world and its members should prevent wars. They react only in the aftermath. The same goes for the EU. 

I don't believe that the war could not have been prevented. We need to sit down at the green table again and negotiate, but you need to be the factor, the creator, because it is happening on your soil. The example of Yugoslavia also shows that the European Community, the European Union, was late here. The Americans were faster, and where did they come from? Right? 

Right. 

Well, have the lessons been learned? Women may not be wiser, but it is harder for us. When it’s harder, you develop diplomatic capabilities to survive. Life is what matters to us most, which is a key component for empathy. We shouldn’t forget half of the world’s population; wisdom, creation, beauty. Problems might be solved differently.

Ms President, what kind of Macedonia you would like to see by the end of your term?

If I say I want to see it in the EU, it is now – in 2026. I always advocate for merit-based accession, but we also have to take into consideration the regional approach, some brave step like the one in 2004. I want to see chapters, clusters closed. See how quickly Albania closed and opened them. If Ukraine and Moldova can make progress technically so quickly, be sure we can do it faster.

Above all, I want certainty. I'm not saying that we will join, but I want it to be known that based on alignment - not only legal, but also political, economic, reform, and so on - that you are here and that you can join at any moment. No government will be able to do that alone.

I’ve tried, believe me, with the best intention to get in contact with the opposition, to tell them that if we should be unified at home

National interest is the most important. If we had a consensus on many issues and had not excluded the opposition - and now it should not be excluded, there is no democracy without the opposition - it would have been much easier for us to say: "Excuse me, we have reservations about this solution, it is not quite like that. We must ask everyone, let them know". They would have looked at us differently. But the way they behaved, they behave towards us from the outside, shows that we have encouraged them that constitutional amendments are the main solution. And, excuse me, 36 amendments, and now new ones. Did they decide anything?

No. So, I do not believe that when you see, 2017 - the highest grades in the report, 2022 - the highest in the report and then a dramatic decline. No, no, no. They say that beautifully these days, common sense is needed, citizens have common sense and we need to know that, that we have common sense and that tomorrow we will leave and that you should be free to walk on this street, on mine, in the neighborhood, without being ashamed and to be able to stop and talk to people, as I am talking to you here today.

Ms President, thank you for the interview.

Thank you. This was probably the longest, and I have to say, the sincerest interview because of the questions. It’s logical because a woman is interviewing another woman.

Photo: Frosina Naskovikj

Videographer and production: Andrej Brankovikj and Vladimir Rabasovikj